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> first custom rifle
first custom rifle
@ 11:04 am (GMT) |
MarkHi Guys,I'm looking to start my first custom rifle project, Ive read all Nathan's books (should have read them before I got my first long range rifle) but anyway, Before I head off to my gun smith I have a couple queries someone may be able to help me with. I know what I want pretty much but I'm slightly stumped on how to get the stock, the HS precision varmint, Ive tried buying bits and pieces from the USA in the past and had difficulty getting anything firearm related sent here to NZ. Whats the best way to get one here? somewhere between being cost effective but simple. Next query is: I want a remington 700 action, will I have to buy a donor rifle or should I be able to source an action alone? ( i see them available in the USA) My last question: are all remington 700 actions created equal, Nathan mentions that the senderos are very good with extremely few having excess slop in the bolt. Is this across the board with remington 700 actions or do they select the best actions for the senderos? I suspect just buying a sendero would be a very sensible option however I have held one and it seems a bit a bit heavy for me, i'd rather a no 4 or 5 contour barrel. Cheers |
Replies
@ 02:44 pm (GMT) |
Bryan WebsterRe: first custom rifleYour lowest cost are likely to buy a rifle and bed the action plus a bit of the barrel in front of the recoil lug. I would start with the Sendero.Second choice might be Remington's Long Range rifle model. Most of them shoot well and have the m40 style B&C stock, which I like. It weighs in at around 9 pounds with the heavy contour barrel similar to the Sendero but should be less costly. Here is the link for your information: https://www.remington.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/model-700-long-range Remember most longer range shooters as well as competition shooters will tell you that a GOOD quality scope, picatinny rail and solid mounts are a basic mandatory requirement. Expect to shell out at least as much or more than the rifle cost you to get decent results. Sightron scopes tend to do what is needed for long range... you can try the 6-24x50 with either Milrad turrets and reticle or go to their decent MOA reticleswith MOA turrets. A truly custom rifle here in BC, Canda is going to cost you a whole lot of cash, starting around $3000 Canadian and up for one with good accuracy. For a decent cost, you can start with one of the above two, shoot them, working up loads while breaking in the barrel. Next you can add a decent trigger, epoxy bed them, add the best scope, rail and mounts you can afford, start reloading for it and go shoot. Another route you can take is to buy a used rifle in decent shape, bed it, scope it, shoot it then buy all of Nathan's books, read them cover to cover and accurize your rifle. If it fails to perform as you need it to, take it to a gunsmith and have it rebarellednwith a good quality stainless steel barrel chambered to meet your needs, have him true the action and if you want also bed the rifle or restock it with something you like. Overall you will find the first two above will get you shooting faster, perhaps at a decent price. |
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@ 02:49 pm (GMT) |
Bryan WebsterRe: first custom rifleTo buy many stocks you may not be able to import them yourself. Retailers who can import stocks are the way to go. I have to do this often here in Canada for stocks made in the USA. |
@ 08:34 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: first custom rifleHi Mark, regarding the 700 Sendero action. Specs are generally good but you do have to keep in mind that the tolerances are not as fine as for example a Borden Rimrock. Bryan has also inadverntently answered your question in that the budget Long range model rifle's are in themselves a fine rifle, though the barrels are prone to rust if not properly cared for, the same as any chrome moly bore.Either the Sendero or Long range will give you access to the HS stock- that being the wide grip version rather than the PSV-029 varmint. If you want to build a custom with the narrow grip 029 and #4 fluted barrel, then you may find that True-Flite can help you work through this whole process as they have import licenses. Do keep in mind that the difference between a Rem #5 and a custom #4 can be negligible. If you want a significantly lighter rifle, you have to be clear on this during the brief. Small things like the length of the knox (barrel parallel) can up the weight so that even though the muzzle is smaller, the fluted Senero can weigh the same as an unfluted #4. |
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@ 09:47 pm (GMT) |
mark sucklingRe: first custom rifleThanks for the info guys. This will be my 6th rifle, ive done the bedding on 2 of them myself wuth Nathans guidance.The sendero is an excellent package I want stainless, the wide fore end beaver tail hs precision & straight recoiling, so that ticks most boxes. I do want some weight to ease recoil (7mm rem mag to start and ream to practical in the future) but im only 70kg and 6'1. Perhaps swap out sendero barrel out for a trueflite. I guess that would achieve the same for similar money except id be left with an oversize barrel channel. |
@ 09:48 pm (GMT) |
Warwick MarflittRe: first custom rifleHey Mark. Give Grant a ring and see what's for sale he might know of something that will work for you that's set up and ready to go.? Or for what you'd pay for freight, import duties and taxes to source from afar and then still have to bed and accurize. True-flite maybe able to make you something for similar $$$ ? It wouldn't hurt to ask the question so that you can compare the costs? The bonus being that you'll end up with a new New Zealand made rifle that's second to none.http://www.truefliteriflebarrels.co.nz/ |
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@ 11:37 pm (GMT) |
mark sucklingRe: first custom rifleThanks Warwick, good idea ill give him a try. |
@ 04:04 am (GMT) |
Thomas KitchenRe: first custom rifleHi MarkI'm just bouncing around ideas here but if you like everything but the weight of a sendero could you get a gunSmith to turn the barrel down a profile or 2? |
@ 11:42 am (GMT) |
mark whiteleyRe: first custom rifleyou need to find an importer in NZ to source your parts for you, here in OZZY they usually charge 10% on top of what the total cost of parts are, eg I buy a shillen match grade stainless barrel (any contor or caliber) delivered for $350 au through an importer from here but if I bought the same barrel here is OZZY from a dealer it would be over $650 au,if you are happy with the sendaro though so be it best of luck with your desisions regards mark |
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@ 04:39 pm (GMT) |
Bryan WebsterRe: first custom rifleJust a few points...I simply listed several options for the OP and also gave the link to Remington's Long Range Rifles. Sometimes the site is painfulley slow so here are the basic points from their web site:Bell and Carlson M40 tactical stock – solid urethane combined with aramid, graphite and fiberglass so it is rigid Aluminum bedding block for added accuracy and an extra swivel for bi-pod 26” heavy contour barrel with matte finish, perfectly matched to its high-velocity caliber offerings Concave target-style barrel crown X-Mark Pro® externally adjustable trigger Drilled and tapped for scope mounts Magazine capacity – four in standard calibers, three in magnum |
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@ 08:33 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: first custom rifleHi Mark, I have put you wrong. Bryan's correction in bold lettering has refreshed my memory. The Rem Long Range has the B&C M40 stock, different to the HS (Sendero) in ergonomics (as per front facing pics and experience with specific technique in Shooting book) but equally solid. Very sorry, work load has been high. Thanks Bryan for clarification. |
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@ 11:38 pm (GMT) |
mark sucklingRe: first custom rifleThanks again for the assistance guys much appreciated. That gives me several things to look in to.No worries Nathan, |
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@ 09:15 pm (GMT) |
mark sucklingRe: first custom rifleHi Guys,I'm down to a couple options, I have my eye on a used sender 7mm rem mag that's been bedded with Nathans Match grade compound. Already has a timney trigger. The Bolt has been fluted and lightened. APPARENTLY shoots half moa. Anyway, I could get that, shoot it as is, see how it goes, if it disappoints I would pull the barrel get the true flight barrel in 7mm practical, true the action & rebed. (the potential price is such that this would still be good value) THe bedding job looks a little rough, hard to see if the have left stock material at the tang (can see compound showing a rear of the tang) Any traps that I should think about in this scenario from you experienced folk? Option B Grant from trueflite is coming back to me with a price for the HS psv029 stock, barrel and an action option, could be pricey but would be a very nice rig. My budget without optics I was thinking about $3500..... not sure if I am realistic. Will find out shortly |
@ 10:58 pm (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: first custom rifleVery different options mark!If you can learn to work with the stock shape the Sendero should work well and it has the timmney as a bonus though not sure why you'd bother lightening the bolt! Has the action been trued? Traps.......? If you go on %'s generally these perform well, "true" round count and maintenance will dictate things to a fair degree. Bedding can be re-done which isn't a big deal with Nathans guidance. Tunning .5 moa out of a factory Sendero is common & relatively easy but they do let a few sub-quality rifles slip through. Grants offer to build you a rifle will be a basically a "no brainer", letting you start out with a known rig. I haven't had grant do any work personally (yet!) but have chatted with Nathan at length about TF's quality workmanship. $3500 is a reasonable budget for a build depending on donor action costs so the Sendero price would need to be pretty good if comparing the 2. |
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@ 12:36 am (GMT) |
mark sucklingRe: first custom rifleYes a bit different, The sendero is a potential bargain (auction), so much so I'm prepared to compromise on my ideal & spend a bit tricking it up. Agreed, really don't know why they would have fluted bolt, personalised it I guess.I don't believe the action is trued. Its probably better to spend the bit more, do it once do it right. Grant got back to me with a price for custom which is do able but the HS stock may not be available as the NZ Agent is moving away from that brand. I know a couple other avenues I could try to still get the HS, otherwise any suggestions?? McMillan A3 or B&C I know Nathan suggests in his books. Grant knows a guy in Rotorua doing carbon stocks, I haven't seen any though. |
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@ 02:31 pm (GMT) |
Bryan WebsterRe: first custom rifleI like the Sendero stock myself, and would have Grant fit it and re-bed the whole thing once he has worked the action over. However if you change stocks, the B&C stocks are not as pricey as the McMillan or Manners stocks (here in Canada anyway)Part of the job of truing the action would be done while fitting the new barrel I think, so do the entire thing and get it all done right, and I would not lighten the bolt at all. If the bolt has a bit of sideways sloppiness get grant to put a sleeve near the rear of the bolt to get rid of that and you will be good to go. |
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@ 11:56 pm (GMT) |
Martin TaylorRe: first custom rifleSuitable LR stock shape (& other forms) becomes a personal fit/taste thing once armed with the knowledge you have gained from the Practical books Mark. Nathan outlines very heavily, construction styles, shapes and fit etc.As Bryan has said he likes the current Sendero shape where as l find the short pistol grip & palm shape to small, more so on the short action which l have now modified. Both my factory Rem's bedded into these stocks average .3 & .5moa. with a slight technique adjustments, so as l said it's just a personal thing with the right overall design. If the budget stretches to a Manners, McMillan or the local carbon job and you like the fit great. Use your knowledge to way up the construction and features, alloy block, pillars etc. Good luck |
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@ 02:04 pm (GMT) |
Bryan WebsterRe: first custom rifleAs Martin stated above, there are local (NZ) carbon stocks made that are very good as an option for you. I think that you would have to see and hold one to know if it will be what you are looking for...They may even be able to custom fit one for you. The same issue as the Manners or McMillan stocks I suppose. I do not like ordering something in that price range from the USA sight unseen, only to find I dislike the palm swell or lack of it, or if my trigger finger does not seem to be naturally placed due to dimensions that require stock work to fix,but it can be done of course.For that reason some people buy the Boyds kaminated wood stocks that are low cost items and can easily be modified to what you might want. |
@ 06:58 pm (GMT) |
Brendon GreigRe: first custom rifleThere is a great satisfaction in making your own if you have the patience as there are a lot of hours of work in them but you can make it fit exactly how you want.the one I made fits me well but I would make a couple of small changes if I make another |
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@ 02:37 am (GMT) |
mark sucklingRe: first custom rifleHey Fellas,My 7mm rem mag long range project is coming along slowly Im getting an accurized Remington 700 action, I've got a McMillan stock on its way to NZ so I will need to make some final decisions about barrel contour, barrel length, throat and mag length. The Barrel length & contour I'm still on the fence, number 4 or 5 (trueflite) 27 or 28inch, is that getting too long for a number 4 contour? Throat, I plan to be shooting 162g amax/eld's plus maybe the 175 eld and the 168 vld berger. The throat is fairly dependant on the magazine length, 88mm for standard Remington 700 I understand but I'm wondering if its worth trying to extend that at all? I haven't seen the 175g eld yet as to optimum max col, I am 90% sure the 7 rem mag will be enough gun for me but I'd like to future proof it to make it suitable to make it into a 7mm practical in the future, is it worth trying to get mag length up to 91mm now? (expensive or difficult) Cheers in advance, Mark |
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@ 02:37 am (GMT) |
mark sucklingRe: first custom rifleHey Fellas,My 7mm rem mag long range project is coming along slowly Im getting an accurized Remington 700 action, I've got a McMillan stock on its way to NZ so I will need to make some final decisions about barrel contour, barrel length, throat and mag length. The Barrel length & contour I'm still on the fence, number 4 or 5 (trueflite) 27 or 28inch, is that getting too long for a number 4 contour? Throat, I plan to be shooting 162g amax/eld's plus maybe the 175 eld and the 168 vld berger. The throat is fairly dependant on the magazine length, 88mm for standard Remington 700 I understand but I'm wondering if its worth trying to extend that at all? I haven't seen the 175g eld yet as to optimum max col, I am 90% sure the 7 rem mag will be enough gun for me but I'd like to future proof it to make it suitable to make it into a 7mm practical in the future, is it worth trying to get mag length up to 91mm now? (expensive or difficult) Cheers in advance, Mark |
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@ 04:49 am (GMT) |
mark whiteleyRe: first custom rifleIMO the #4 would be lighter than I would like and what I thought is why not copy the contour of the sendero since you are going rem action and with regards to throating what I do is make a pair of perfect dummy cartridges up with the projectile set exactly where I want to start it with the base set at the neck shoulder, necks turned and concentric then send them off to who ever you want to make your reamer and they will make an exact copy of your dummy round with the lead angle to suit,
what also needs to be added is the neck clearance you would like, I prefer tighter necks but not more than 3 thou, this usually means no factory ammo but better consistency it works for me, tight chamber and neck with a well balanced barrel my thoughts anyway regards mark |
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@ 11:55 pm (GMT) |
mark sucklingRe: first custom rifleThanks Mark, great info.Tight neck clearances will be new to me, is neck turning essential around 3-5 thou ? Thus no factory ammo? I guess a competition fl die set will be required too to get the brass to finer tolerance. I've been using the Lee collet neck sizing die with a very old Lyman FL die when necessary on my current sako a7, 7rm |
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@ 10:16 pm (GMT) |
Nathan FosterRe: first custom rifleHi Mark, sorry, I have been under the hammer this week.OK, the normal mag length for the magnums is 94mm. I guess yours has sheet metal spot welded in place. This is easy enough to remove later. The standard 7mm Rem Mag dimensions are optimal. The throat length is perfect. But if you wanted to get real slick about it, you could order a custom reamer with the leade angle further optimized for the ELD-M / A-MAX. Talk to Grant at TF and see what he says. He may go halves with you. Another option is that he basically grinds the leade off his existing reamer and utilizes the PTG uni-throater thereafter (see Accurizing book). This would help optimize all future Rem Mags with a bias towards low drag (which most kiwis want now anyway). Note that a True-Flite #4 weights the same as a Sendero #5. This is because TF use a long full diameter knox and if you also omit fluting, they will weigh the same. Make use of the 4 groove canted 9 twist barrel design. These are simply excellent to work with. If you want to make this a Practical in the future, then set the current barrel length at 27". Just keep in mind that the chamber may work harden over time so if you put a very high number of rounds down the tube, you risk chipping my Practical reamer later. Otherwise, all should be fine. |
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@ 08:18 am (GMT) |
mark sucklingRe: first custom rifleThanks Nathan, again very helpful.I haven't got the action yet, Grant can supply it, I was just going off info in your rifles book regarding 88mm mag length. So good to know, mag length not an issue. I've just been rereading the section on chamber / throat etc. I think that gives me enough info to move forward. Cheers |
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