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the 35/303

15 Dec 2015
@ 05:42 am (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Hi guys so I finally got a chance to write about the 35/303 project I have been working on.

So I better start from the start.
When I meet Nathan at reloaders supplies during the year, was when he first mentioned he was trying to convince Grant at trueflite to make a 358 caliber barrel.

Fast fordwards few months when I was emailing Nathan about my 308 norma magnum he said if I find the caliber was not to my liking put the rifle a side as he will have a 358 norma magnum reamer as trueflite was going to produce 358 barrels.

This is what got the old hampster on the wheels between my ears running about making a 35/303.
So it was off to reloaders supplies to get some speer hotcor 358 calber projectiles as they were the cheapest.
I started off with a m10 bolt that I tapered to a point to to expand the neck then using a block of wood with a hole in it to seat the projectiles,
running them through a lee enfield I found that they would load fine.

Having establish that they would work I went on to that dangerous place known as trademe rifle section.
I found a nice no4 mk1 sporter, after bit of a bid war and the appropiate paper work I had a rifle in better conditon then I thought for under $100 it even came with the dial up style aparture sights which is handy as I plan to leave this rifle unscoped at this stage.

I also needed a more reliable way of necking up the brass thankfully lee precision sell parts straight from there website, I ordered 358 winchester and 35 whelen mandrel and a 358 caliber seating plug.
I fitted the 35 whelen mandrel to a 303 full length sizing I had to expand the necks, to seat the projectiles I used the 303 seater die just winding whole die in and out to adjust seating depth at this stage.

Now came the next question how the hell was I going to get a barrel chambered in 35/303, after a lot of searching with not much help it was time to contact the guru himself.
After a couple emails with Nathan we set up a time for a phone call.
We discussed few options like using a 303 reamer then a 358 throat/neck reamer or a sperate throat and neck reamer but it wasn't an ideal situation, we also talked about using a 303 reamer then running a 35 whelen reamer in but this would end up with an improved variant of some sort which may wreck the smooth feeding.
Luckily for me one of Nathan has a client that uses lee enfields chambered in 303 epps, so he reached out to him about how smooth the feeding was.
Thankfully he got back to Nathan quickly as I wasn't havent much luck with my idea of filling a case with water clamping a bolt in the neck and heating it to expand the case. (bloody plumbers with there far fetched ideas)
it was decided that it was best to stick with standard dimensions so not to run into feeding issues and to get a custom reamer made.
Nathan also mentioned to me that the 250gr hot cors would be to hard for our local game and that the 225gr gamekings would be a far better options.

Trying to find some game kings was proving difficult thankfully the great service at reloaders supplies came through and I had gamekings in my hands in under a week,
trying the gamekings I had few feeding issues.
Thinking it may be the week spring tension in my magazine I ordered a new repo promag.
I was still having issues from one side of the staggered magazine when the bolt is worked slow if it is worked fast it seamed to be fine.
Once again I decided to contact Nathan via email, he suggested I might want to try the hornady ftx's designed for the 35 rem as they should perform like the sst's.
Back to reloaders supplies I went and thankfully they had some in stock.
The ftx feed smoothly straight away, I now had the issue that I had 3 projectiles that I wanted to shoot but needed to make sure that they would all feed smoothly.

Noticing that how I was making the dummy was putting the concentricity way off a new method was needed, Nathan had talked about the hornady neck dies in his reloading book.
A 338 and 358 hornady neck die was ordered along with a 358 ogive gauge.
In the mean time I drilled out the spare 303 seating die I had and put in the 35 seating plug from lee.

Once my ordered arrived the fun begun slowly seating projectiles checking it for feeding the checking it with the ogive gauge, after a lot of fine tuning I found and c.o.a.l to the ogive that worked well with all 3 projectiles.
I also filed a case neck open so I could check on how much each of the projectile was sitting in the neck.

Now came designing a reamer going through saami specs on things like 358win, 35 whelen and 35 rem I notices the 35 rem had a slightly tighter neck then both the 358win and 35 whelen.
Nathan had suggested a freebore of .200 thinking that using a slightly tighter neck might help prevent any accuracy issues I measured neck thickness on the ppu brass I was using and did some calculations as the last thing I needed to be doing was neck turning on a bush cartridge, running my calculations pass Nathan he confirmed I shouldn't have any issues.

Now came the time for me to design my reamer, having printed off the saami diagrams for 303brit and 35 rem I I needed to combine the two, the mainly problem was since I was leaving the shoulder angles the same as I expanded the neck the neck would become longer as it moved up the shoulder, out came the calculator and some pythagoras.
I finally was happy with my calculations so I emailed David Mansons reamers, with my designs explaining the c.o.a.l to the ogive I had worked out plus I wanted .200 freebore.
They promptly emailed me back with a design that they had transferred to their drawings.
I asked Nathan to just run an eye over it before I confirmed but it seemed to be right and got the nod from Nathan so I confirmed my order.
This is the second time I had dealt with the team at David Manson reamers and they really know good customer service which is great to see.

While I waited on the reamer I needed to find a replacement front sight as the original one would not be reuseable.
After checking a few different options I found skinner sights offer a dovetail front blade that can be filed to the right height that is designed with round edges to minimise hang ups on scrub when bush hunting.
I ordered two different heights which arrived from the states without any issues.

I now have everything sitting here ready to go im just waiting on the barrels to go into production.
The plan is to use a no5 contour sporter grade barrel 22” long with the front sight dovetailed straight into the barrel.

its been an interesting experience learning new things and i will be forever greatful that i could contact Nathan when needed, so thank you Nathan and Steph the work you guys do is greatly appreciated.

sorry for the marathon read guys but thought i would share the experience.


Replies

15 Dec 2015
@ 10:05 pm (GMT)

Ben Grady

Re: the 35/303
Awesome write up Thomas.
I hope you can add some pics as the story unfolds.
Nathan should probably help out with your psychiatrist fees for encouraging such behavior. It's got me thinking of a new project. hhhmmm
Better finish my last one first.
15 Dec 2015
@ 11:21 pm (GMT)

Martin Taylor

Re: the 35/303
Keep us posted Thomas, as I said before "will be a great bush combo" tuff as nails.
16 Dec 2015
@ 04:27 am (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: the 35/303
All good Thomas, you are most welcome. This is a good project, something that might seem a bit different, yet is highly practical. It makes use of what is these days an inexpensive action considering nearly all the barrels are stuffed now. Not too many people want to go to the trouble of rebarreling a .303 these days when an off the shelf .308 Win can do the same or more. But by changing things up slightly, you have created a situation which allows you to gain a rekindled interest in the Enfield.

FYI, if you do ever decide to run downloads for plinking, try the .357 180gr Hornady XTP for kicks. It is normally not too difficult to get this shooting with reasonable accuracy, regardless of the 1 thou difference. Furthermore, the bullet is designed to work at low velocities- an all around win.

16 Dec 2015
@ 06:48 am (GMT)

Eloy Vilavella

Re: the 35/303
Pretty cool. I am glad more people are enjoying the fruits of
The 358 bullets. Horse power baby!

You will find the 180gr ttsx to be a great bullet.
Also very smart call on the 225gr sgk.
I also had good luck with 200gr ftx loaded far out. These
Are good bullets and while woounds are wide and deep I prefer
A more reliable bullet fir larger game. Tsx and partition are
Super consistent no matter what angle or bone.

For the 358 I made based on the 7.62x39 I gave .180" extra freebore
Over the 35 rem that is virtually nonexistent and not feasible for modern bullets.
Accuracy has been very good. These bullets have penty of bearing surface and
A smooth angle into the lands assured consistent accuracy with most loads
And seating depths.

Enjoy the 35 and those brutal see through holes!!
19 Dec 2015
@ 02:14 am (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: the 35/303
thank you for comments gentlemen

Ben i wonder if one day Nathan will get an angry email from a wife about her husband wanting to build some gun after talking to Nathan.
its great be able to access someone that when you got an odd idea bouncing around not only does it normally get confirmed its possible but you get the how it can be done.

Nathan has hit the nail on the head as you can expect.
there's plenty of lee enfield floating around with screwed barrels and its pretty hard to justify rebarreling a lee enfield when you can pick up howa/ruger americans etc for under a grand but by doing in in 358/303 you can have something different and should be a hard hitting bush rifle.
there's also a few rifles that have been pasted down and rather then it rotten away in a safe somewhere it might be an opportunity to get some use out of it.

thank you Nathan hornady website states the 180gr xtp are temporarily suspended so not sure if they will make them again, ill try and track done some old stock

Eloy sounds like a great little caliber. my wife brought me the "cartridges of the world" book for a gift a while ago and in the wildcat section it talks about a 35x39 based off the 6.5 grendal case called the 358 gremlin, so its starting to become more popular.

ill upload photo's as time allows.
this is the gun its a 1942 long branch (canadian made) no4 mk1* i believe the * has a different bolt run way with the gap at the chamber end unlike the clip on ones like the no1 mk3 and no4 mk1
trigger breaks at 3 lbs which is nice but does have a lot of travel that i have to get use to.
those are the sights i mentioned for anyone thats not familiar with the no4 sights
23 Dec 2015
@ 07:16 am (GMT)

Eloy Vilavella

Re: the 35/303
Hi Thomas,
Thanks for sharing.
Bautiful classic. That is going to be a great 'lets go beat the bushes', hard hitting, meat harvesting machine.
Btw, my 358 is not a gremlin, it is shorter case and larger freebore. Similar directives but a different design.

Keep us posted about this beauty.

Cheers,
E.
23 Dec 2015
@ 11:36 am (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: the 35/303
Thomas I don't know if you've seen this 303 information site. Some of these look like a great 35/303 platform?

http://www.enfieldresource.com/sorrell-and-sons-lee-enfields
23 Dec 2015
@ 11:39 am (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: the 35/303
oh! LOOK!

http://www.trademe.co.nz/sports/hunting-shooting/rifles/centrefire/auction-999075879.htm

BUY NOW..........Fit 358 barrel with hot water funnel for authenticity
20 May 2016
@ 10:03 pm (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: the 35/303
just thought i would do a quick update.

Grant rang me couple days ago as he was started work on the 35/303 so shouldn't be long now, he will do some testing before shipping it back which should be interested.

hopefully if Grant reads this he will post few photo's but i know how busy he is.



21 May 2016
@ 09:42 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: the 35/303
Hi Thomas, we have finally shifted and partially unpacked. Managed to test shoot Grant's TF .35 Whelen AI barrel a couple of days ago before heading bush. Looks like a winner:



23 May 2016
@ 07:08 am (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: the 35/303
you can't complain about that, it go's to show the results of good workmanship.

23 May 2016
@ 08:40 pm (GMT)

Grant Lovelock

Re: the 35/303
Hey Thomas, I'm just about to try and upload a photo of your rifle rebarreled.... only thing left to do is the dovetail groove for the front sight but I just discovered I dont have a small enough cutter so and only available from the states.... so youll have to wait another couple of weeks untill that turns up sorry mate.....

Nathan has that wheelen ai running nice.... and thanks for the compliment....
23 May 2016
@ 08:46 pm (GMT)

Grant Lovelock

Re: the 35/303
23 May 2016
@ 08:51 pm (GMT)

Grant Lovelock

Re: the 35/303
sorry guys.... not sure how to post the pic bigger...... much better at making rifles than 'puter work
23 May 2016
@ 09:53 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: the 35/303
23 May 2016
@ 09:58 pm (GMT)

Nathan Foster

Re: the 35/303
I think this is such a cool project. So good to see an Enfield put to use in this manner.

Thomas, I suggest that even if you do not want to go with full and proper bedding, that the rifle is given at least rudimentary 'spot' bedding to help it along. Bed the rear of the action and start of the barrel. Then after this, bed the trigger guard to bring the stock and action up to tension (see accurizing book). Could split a kit in two for this- but make sure the split is accurately measured on digital scales.
24 May 2016
@ 05:38 pm (GMT)

Joshua Mayfield

Re: the 35/303
This rifle is a wonderful concept. I have a 1917 Enfield that is in good enough shape that I can't bring myself to make any major modifications, but you've got me thinking about what could be possible with some of the old beat up sporterized rifles I see around. Wonderful.
24 May 2016
@ 06:26 pm (GMT)

Thomas Kitchen

Re: the 35/303
thank you for posting pictures Grant its looking bloody great,
i understand Grant i guess in your trade no matter how much tooling you have there's always something new needed.

thank you Nathan, i will go over book and your youtube video again, i think i still got a kit stashed away, rather then splitting a kit the idea did cross my mind to do two rifles at once but that might be pushing my luck a little.

this project should be a good solution to what to do when your 303 barrel wears out for a lot of people. its hard to justify the expense of a new 303 barrel when 308 howa or ruger american can be had for under 1k.

it should also open the door to try the 358 caliber that are hard to find off the shelf to.
27 May 2016
@ 08:42 pm (GMT)

Ben Grady

Re: the 35/303
Hey Thomas, You gotta love the Lee Enfield.
I have bedded a no4 mk1 and wished I had seen Nathans video first. Because the fore-wood goes on at an angle you need to relieve behind the main screw/recoil lug to get it to fit nicely. Other than that it all went well.
What projectiles are you thinking of loading?

30 May 2016
@ 04:29 am (GMT)

Warwick Marflitt

Re: the 35/303
I feel a 358 cal revolution is upon us! Looking good guys. Your going to be a happy camper Thomas
01 Jun 2016
@ 04:28 am (GMT)

Grant Lovelock

Re: the 35/303
Talking of 358's...... who's gunna put their hand up for a rebarrel in 358-08 (358win)...... or do I have to build another rifle for myself? lol
35 sambar is nearly operational..... this weekend will see that going....
Thomas's 35-303 wont be far away, teh dovetail cutter I ordered for the front sight is nearly here.....
Watch this space......
01 Jun 2016
@ 04:28 am (GMT)

Grant Lovelock

Re: the 35/303
Talking of 358's...... who's gunna put their hand up for a rebarrel in 358-08 (358win)...... or do I have to build another rifle for myself? lol
35 sambar is nearly operational..... this weekend will see that going....
Thomas's 35-303 wont be far away, teh dovetail cutter I ordered for the front sight is nearly here.....
Watch this space......
02 Jun 2016
@ 08:15 pm (GMT)

Grant Lovelock

Re: the 35/303
Hey Thomas...... its done..... finished.... ready to roll.
I must say I was very surprised at the lack of recoil..... if you put a 180 grain pill into a 308 with 44 grains of 2206h behind it your shoulder would feel a damn sight more than what that felt like!!
<a href='http://postimg.org/image/hw09rut0r/full/' target='_blank'><img src='http://s33.postimg.org/lfm7hnvqn/20160603_073845.jpg' border='0' alt="20160603 073845" /></a><br /><a target='_blank' href='http://postimage.org/app.php'>print screen windows xp</a><br /><br />
02 Jun 2016
@ 08:16 pm (GMT)

Grant Lovelock

Re: the 35/303

print screen windows xp
02 Jun 2016
@ 09:12 pm (GMT)

Martin Taylor

Re: the 35/303
This is a great project guys, it'll make a bloody fast handling, ultra reliable bush gun.
I love using our sporter 303 hound hunting, but you will have so much more knockdown power Thomas, which is the only limiting factor l have found with ours.

Stop putting Ideas in my head...........there's to many already! hahahaaa
 

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